https://objectlessons.space Object Lessons Space Mon, 10 Jul 2023 08:01:56 +0000 https://objectlessons.space en https://objectlessons.space/Current-Issue-Alternative Fri, 22 May 2020 11:22:14 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Current-Issue-Alternative <img width="3568" height="1992" width_o="3568" height_o="1992" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/5173192718cd86677e84211dd8f122c395a09dbcda7d3e78fbe0505b1990a33f/Indigenous-People-Alliance-of-Minahasa.png" data-mid="184612401" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/5173192718cd86677e84211dd8f122c395a09dbcda7d3e78fbe0505b1990a33f/Indigenous-People-Alliance-of-Minahasa.png" /> Natasha Tontey on Cloaks of Protection, Tinkering with Time, and Fantastical Video Game Escapades “Acknowledging the agency of more-than-humans or non-humans, and considering them as being more important than us humans, is a thought-provoking practice.” animation, film, installations, performance <img width="1600" height="1069" width_o="1600" height_o="1069" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a14d85299b589a5c717bfd7599db20a136c025221e5a5c49aeb30c56fbbed007/DSC00633-2-1600x1069.jpg" data-mid="184612435" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/a14d85299b589a5c717bfd7599db20a136c025221e5a5c49aeb30c56fbbed007/DSC00633-2-1600x1069.jpg" /> Nawin Nuthong on Archaeogaming, Dinner Table Histories and Building Multiverses of Curiosity “Everyone at the table has a different line of reasoning, and they present their own version of the story. I really believe that these multiple versions reflect how most people think about issues such as political matters, for example.” animation, archaeology, found objects, graphic design, installations, internet art <img width="2560" height="1600" width_o="2560" height_o="1600" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/7d788fba20ed7399cfab1ca4f66636927ac4459e28cc40692ae73f0af625641c/seaweed-story-ss2.png" data-mid="186305893" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/7d788fba20ed7399cfab1ca4f66636927ac4459e28cc40692ae73f0af625641c/seaweed-story-ss2.png" /> ikkibawiKrrr on Small Moss-Like Acts, Moving Like a Band, and The Social Memories of Songs “We have a desire to make art that does not exist only as art. We want to incorporate cultural and social aspects, cartoons, songs, and all sorts of media into our work.” film, installations, music,&nbsp;performance More stories → &nbsp; https://objectlessons.space/Browse-Banner Sat, 02 May 2020 08:55:37 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Browse-Banner Browse BySTORY&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;INDEX https://objectlessons.space/Book Fri, 15 Jan 2021 07:09:15 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Book On Holding Space is a commemorative publication. It examines various ecologies of generosity and hospitality. How can creating, sharing and holding space colour the way in which we make art, relate to one another, and encounter art? The publication brings together new interviews, commissioned artworks, and poetry. It features the practices and works of artists and cultural practitioners—including Sonia Kwek, Joanne Pang, Charmaine Poh, Marla Bendini, Pey Chuan Tan, Rifqi Amirul Rosli, PURE EVER, Aki Hassan, and Jollin Tan. Order now → <img width="6000" height="3672" width_o="6000" height_o="3672" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/31031d9033cdc7d2dfced2814befd168a5e5893dd7553ac9d43e468df2b11a70/Dini-Nur-Aghnia--The-Sun-Goes-Down--2018--flour-clay-on-canvas-board--200-x-120-cm-min.jpg" data-mid="95152811" border="0" style="width: 503px; height: 307.836px; display: none;" src="//freight.cargo.site/w/900/q/75/i/31031d9033cdc7d2dfced2814befd168a5e5893dd7553ac9d43e468df2b11a70/Dini-Nur-Aghnia--The-Sun-Goes-Down--2018--flour-clay-on-canvas-board--200-x-120-cm-min.jpg"><img width="600" height="338" width_o="600" height_o="338" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/ea1f70ede24b38edf382ac85e67a298195cf331200f12c7d693bc2d828c0072e/ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif" data-mid="127279961" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/600/i/ea1f70ede24b38edf382ac85e67a298195cf331200f12c7d693bc2d828c0072e/ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif" /> https://objectlessons.space/Listen Wed, 30 Sep 2020 13:51:07 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Listen Mushroomed is a series of conversations around art making, artistic networks and ecosystems. Sit in on conversations with artists and cultural practitioners. Produced in collaboration with Singapore Community Radio, listen to your favourite episodes over and over again on Spotify. • Full list of episodes and transcripts https://objectlessons.space/Support Sat, 02 May 2020 08:23:01 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Support Object Lessons Space is an art historical archive and platform that documents conversations with artists, writers, and curators. Through our work, we hope to create nuanced, sensitive and intersectional dialogue around art. In a cultural landscape where content is often driven by social media’s frenzied pace, we are committed towards facilitating honest conversations and slow consumption for our readers. The trademark and logos on this website are the registered and unregistered trademarks of Object Lessons Space. Nothing contained on this website should be construed as granting license or right to use any trademark without the prior written consent of Object Lessons Space. All of the images herein, unless otherwise noted, are copyrighted by the photographer and or institution credited. No part of this site, or any of the content contained herein, may be used or reproduced in any manner whatsoever without express permission of the copyright holder(s). Sign up for updates in your inbox #mc_embed_signup{background:none; clear:left; font:12px Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; width:100%;} /* Add your own Mailchimp form style overrides in your site stylesheet or in this style block. We recommend moving this block and the preceding CSS link to the HEAD of your HTML file. */ https://objectlessons.space/FOOTER Sun, 01 Mar 2020 11:04:58 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/FOOTER © Object Lessons Space, 2023. All rights reserved. ︎ &nbsp; ︎&nbsp; &nbsp; ︎&nbsp; &nbsp; ︎&nbsp; &nbsp; ︎ https://objectlessons.space/Natasha-Tontey-on-Cloaks-of-Protection-Tinkering-with-Time-and Mon, 27 Mar 2023 05:23:59 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Natasha-Tontey-on-Cloaks-of-Protection-Tinkering-with-Time-and Natasha Tontey on Cloaks of Protection, Tinkering with Time, and Fantastical Video Game Escapades Share: ︎&nbsp; &nbsp;︎ Slow Conversations Natasha Tontey is an interdisciplinary artist. Her artistic practice predominantly explores the fictional accounts of the history and myths surrounding ‘manufactured fear.’ In her practice, she observes any possibilities of other futures that are projected not from the perspective of major and established institutions, but a subtle and personal struggle of the outcasted entities and beings. Her recent exhibitions include a solo show at Auto Italia, London, UK (2022). And selected group shows at Singapore Biennale 2022; GHOST;2565, Bangkok (2022); transmediale 2021; Other Futures, Amsterdam (2021). In 2020, she received the HASH Award from the ZKM, Center for Art and Media Karlsruhe and Akademie Schloss-Solitude. She is a fellow for Human Machine of the Junge Akademie at Akademie der Künste Berlin 2021-2023. Filed under: animation, film, installations, performance <img width="3568" height="1992" width_o="3568" height_o="1992" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/5173192718cd86677e84211dd8f122c395a09dbcda7d3e78fbe0505b1990a33f/Indigenous-People-Alliance-of-Minahasa.png" data-mid="173471026" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/5173192718cd86677e84211dd8f122c395a09dbcda7d3e78fbe0505b1990a33f/Indigenous-People-Alliance-of-Minahasa.png" /> For our conversation, you picked out a couple of references that stand out for their fantastical, unruly, and interstellar worlds. Some of these descriptors might also be used to describe the way you approach world building in works such as Wa’anak Witu Watu, The Epoch of Mapalucene and Garden Amidst the Flame as well. When you build works such as these, do you set out to achieve a particularly phantasmagorical quality, or do you find that these works happen to land on such worlds naturally? I think so, it happens naturally. Sometimes the scripts that I have written change instantly when they are being edited or produced. Things that are missing can suddenly appear, or they just don’t feel right anymore. Sometimes things or memories that were lost and disappeared as a child may appear suddenly, sometimes from scraps of dreams. ¹ Wa’anak Witu Watu, Natasha Tontey (still) 2021&nbsp; ² Wa’anak Witu Watu, Natasha Tontey (still)2021 <img width="1920" height="1080" width_o="1920" height_o="1080" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/4c3de12bf86862b9407ad3ce02a0352bb84d87540a3f298417532151f91856b5/Wa-anak-Witu-Watu_Still_Lumimuut-Toar.jpg" data-mid="173470168" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/4c3de12bf86862b9407ad3ce02a0352bb84d87540a3f298417532151f91856b5/Wa-anak-Witu-Watu_Still_Lumimuut-Toar.jpg" /> <img width="1920" height="1080" width_o="1920" height_o="1080" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/dde0a4943ae21190f19d8915470d94f534eba093de50c2698417270f03b7e4ef/Wa-anak-Witu-Watu_work-in-progress_02.jpg" data-mid="173470169" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/dde0a4943ae21190f19d8915470d94f534eba093de50c2698417270f03b7e4ef/Wa-anak-Witu-Watu_work-in-progress_02.jpg" /> ³&nbsp; Space Is The Place (Outer Space Employment Agency), Sun Ra 1974 In particular, I wanted to focus on your choice of Sun Ra’s work. In his music videos, the focus isn’t just on setting and ambience, but also on the use of costume. Dress also plays a huge role in your works, not only in terms of what individuals wear, but also how screens and spaces are dressed. Could you elaborate on the role of dress in your works, both in virtual space and physical installations? What are they markers of for you, and why are they significant? I think costumes and clothing are important elements in my work. Besides I enjoy mixing and matching clothes on a daily basis, I feel clothes are important in creating a character in a world-building process. Clothing symbolises thought, nature, mission, and power. However, having no clothes also smybolises something. In one of my works, for example, Pest to Power, I created non-genital humans where one of the characters was not even wrapped in a single piece of clothing. This figure hugged a cockroach in a non-linear world, suggesting that humans and non-humans were equal, or in this case, perhaps cockroach may even be further along in terms of their evolutionary process than humans. Then in Garden Amidst the Flame I talk about the Karai&nbsp;ritual in Minahasa, North Sulawesi, Indonesia. Karai is an ancient ritual of coming-of-age in Minahasa in which knowledge is shared among recipients by ancestral messages. In this context throughout the process of Karai, one is assumed to be receiving an invisible cloak by the ancestors to protect and guard the ancestral knowledge. The robe or clothing is not visible but can be felt, and develops depending on the soul of the wearer in harmony with his daily life. In the work, Karai is mostly done by me, and I discuss the potential idea of care in the ritual that is considered heteronormative. I try to destabilise and reconfigure the assumption of Karai in relation to the idea of care and invulnerability instead of aggression and masculinity. In the context of Garden Amidst the Flame, here the idea of clothing is an invisible cloak given by the ancestors to protect and transfer knowledge—a cloak that evolves depending on the soul of the wearer according to his daily path. So, the role of clothing for me is not just as an accessory or decoration but as protection. Clothing symbolises thought, nature, mission, and power. However, having no clothes also smybolises something. ⁴ Hausu (House), dir. by Nobuhiko Ôbayashi 1977 I'm also struck by the number of filmic references that you picked out for this chat. What do you enjoy about the experience of watching a film, and how would you describe your relationship to films? I am not a cinephile. I am quite picky about films. However, I sometimes enjoy binge watching soap operas or scrolling through TikTok. I find it stimulating and entertaining. Moving images on hand devices are very relevant to today's daily life. It is also very relational. I find myself often sending video links to friends, and it becomes a conversation. On the other hand, the amount of time we spend on screens makes it hard for us to be amazed by something new—which is quite sad. I keep remembering the fun times watching stuff from my childhood times. When I was a child, I remember watching the same VCD each and everyday throughout the year without getting bored. That’s something that I cannot do today. The amount of visual information overwhelms me. It is an irony that I found interesting. Visual imagery soothes me in an interesting and somehow wicked way. ⁵ Wa’anak Witu Watu, Natasha Tontey2021, Installation view at transmediale Credit: Photo by Luca Girardini, CC NC SA 4.0 transmediale 2021 ⁶ Wa’anak Witu Watu, Natasha Tontey (still) 2021, Installation view at Arko Art Council Credit: Photo by Arko Art Council Korea <img width="1920" height="1280" width_o="1920" height_o="1280" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/7cce2bdd99bbbe3c45548f43eb5bce538fa1db1bdfa3af5169ee7b53fe5cc396/LIUC_Transmediale2021_1516.jpeg" data-mid="173471283" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/7cce2bdd99bbbe3c45548f43eb5bce538fa1db1bdfa3af5169ee7b53fe5cc396/LIUC_Transmediale2021_1516.jpeg" /> <img width="8256" height="6192" width_o="8256" height_o="6192" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/161be2c04e3dc6edbc72ea833b3593d8226e51ee8bc90ae493701e74485d5662/_HCK5856-min.JPG" data-mid="173471358" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/161be2c04e3dc6edbc72ea833b3593d8226e51ee8bc90ae493701e74485d5662/_HCK5856-min.JPG" /> ⁷ Pink Flamingoes, dir. by John Waters 1972 You’ve worked with moving image consistently, and time in films often follows a linear trajectory, with minutes steadily moving along literally what is a progress bar at the bottom of one’s media player or screen. How do you wrestle with different cosmologies or conceptions of time whilst working with such a chronological medium? What are some of the strategies that you’ve found helpful in pushing back against the steady march of time? I never create a linear storyline. Most of the time, duration and timeline or trajectories are the last things in my mind. I play with the concept of time in moving images in most of my works. One of the works, for example, in Wa'anak Witu Watu I made chapters that didn't match chronologically and all of them were arranged as if they were rotating timeline. In Garden Amidst the Flame there are characters that come from the past such as the Coelacanth, as well as in Pest to Power where there are cockroaches as living fossils. In the work I'm currently working on, Of Other Tomorrows Never Known, I am designing a character to function as a marker of time, namely a cyborg vampire. In this new work, I am trying to imagine three different phases of time that the character can travel between. I never create a linear storyline. Most of the time, duration and timeline or trajectories are the last things in my mind. The portrayal of girlhood in Garden Amidst the Flame is also one that emphasises joy and friendship. The characters move deftly between different planes, navigating a fast-changing technological present as skillfully as they do their spiritual encounters. In contrast, portrayals of girlhood in mainstream media and pop culture can be testy and exploitative. Was this something that you had at the back of your mind or were responding to when making Garden Amidst the Flame, and if so, was it important to you that the film proffered an alternative take on the experience of girlhood? The notion of friendship wasn’t actually in the plan, however, the dynamics of girlhood organically emerged once we hung out and made a film together. I see girlhood as a process of me learning with my collaborators from the Wulan Lengkoan Kawasaran group, as well as a reflection of the coming-of-age process—remembering how hard it is to be human. Working with girls who have passion for learning Kabasaran, which is a very masculine activity, makes me see girlhood beyond the limitations of gendered binaries. Being a woman is always overwhelmed by social norms. A woman may be scorned if she has a dream that is different from others’. Through the presentation of girlhood in the context of the Minahasan community, I wanted to present a critical perspective of the complexities of contemporary life there. ⁸ Garden Amidst the Flame, Natasha Tontey 2022 ⁹ Garden Amidst the Flame, Natasha Tontey 2022 <img width="1280" height="720" width_o="1280" height_o="720" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/fad3b8f65200991a4bf785ad1263bd544008979cde5d5419c1f3e46acd08f1dc/Untitled_1.79.1.jpg" data-mid="173471557" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/fad3b8f65200991a4bf785ad1263bd544008979cde5d5419c1f3e46acd08f1dc/Untitled_1.79.1.jpg" /> <img width="6000" height="4000" width_o="6000" height_o="4000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/3cc19a63edb23e197a5bce4d250026ae808616fd8f74f6c281851bb5b3a0b6c0/DSC03690.JPG" data-mid="173471556" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/3cc19a63edb23e197a5bce4d250026ae808616fd8f74f6c281851bb5b3a0b6c0/DSC03690.JPG" /> The more-than-human often makes appearances in your work. In Pest to Power, cockroaches were a superior, triumphant race. In Garden Amidst the Flame that we were just discussing, creatures such as the coelacanth are guides with their own unique personalities. Our relationship with the more-than-human is an entangled, slimy, and messy affair, but you often approach this by proposing new logics, systems and senses that displace the primacy of the human. Are there aspects of or perspectives from the more-than-human that you feel like you’d still like to push further or examine by way of your work? Acknowledging the agency of more-than-humans or non-humans, and considering them as being more important than us humans, is a thought-provoking practice. It makes me more critical in my observations of the world. When I think that humans are not at the centre of, and not really important, in this universe, sometimes I suffer in the sense that I cannot grasp this reality. Especially since I grew up believing that everything in this universe is related to human activity. I enjoy this suffering though. I am currently making a new story about vampires and deep time. No human has ever gone through the deep time phase—only rocks, cockroaches, and coelacanths have. Or perhaps vampires and time travelling cyborgs too. Acknowledging the agency of more-than-humans or non-humans, and considering them as being more important than us humans, is a thought-provoking practice. ¹⁰ The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild&nbsp;2017 You also picked out The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild for our conversation. Now that you’ve finished the game, how do you think your experience with it tinged the way you think about being immersed into the story of a different character, space, and time? The game world feels free and fun—we can safely enter the forest, or tickle goblins, or take bananas from ninjas, or eat swift violet flowers so we can run faster, and interact freely with NPCs. This is quite unlike the overwhelming number ofs social norms in everyday life that scares me most of the time. ¹¹ Garden Amidst the Flame, Natasha Tontey 2022, Installation view at Auto Italia Credit: Photo by Henry Mills, Auto Italia, London ¹² Garden Amidst the Flame, Natasha Tontey 2022, Installation view at Auto Italia Credit: Photo by Henry Mills, Auto Italia, London <img width="8192" height="5464" width_o="8192" height_o="5464" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/ea1df9d69f6b1b33d9da66f97c679c4f037ed91e670749ce4dab2ffc661840f2/Natasha-Tontey_Garden-Amidst-The-Flame_Auto-Italia_Lo-Res-03.jpg" data-mid="173471946" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/ea1df9d69f6b1b33d9da66f97c679c4f037ed91e670749ce4dab2ffc661840f2/Natasha-Tontey_Garden-Amidst-The-Flame_Auto-Italia_Lo-Res-03.jpg" /> <img width="8192" height="5464" width_o="8192" height_o="5464" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/5ca5a8fb5736bf1adf3cab9773504eaee77658c84ff07f5e9dc404d23391ef51/Natasha-Tontey_Garden-Amidst-The-Flame_Auto-Italia_Lo-Res-02.jpg" data-mid="173471944" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/5ca5a8fb5736bf1adf3cab9773504eaee77658c84ff07f5e9dc404d23391ef51/Natasha-Tontey_Garden-Amidst-The-Flame_Auto-Italia_Lo-Res-02.jpg" /> Given how multi-faceted indigeneity is, it is transformative in nature—translating differently or possessing different nuances depending on the community or context it is used in relation to. What does indigeneity mean to you, and are there particular qualities about your relationship to the term that you would say are quite unique or specific to the Minahasan context? This is a hard question, especially when asked the meaning of indigeneity. However, I think indigeneity has something to do not only with soil and land as geographical space, but something beyond that. Over the last few years, my works have always been site-specific interventions where I respond to space as a mode of presentation. This applies not only to physical spaces, but also to digital spaces such as the Internet. Playing with space is a feature that I always apply to my body of work as a characteristic. The notion of space also intersects with the idea of indigeneity and place that I am currently developing. The struggle of the indigenous people of Minahasan with their space, be it in the form of land, rights, or other tangible and intangible space, is the focus of my recent artistic research. Of course this started from a cultural perspective that I developed in my practice as I embrace my Minahasan ancestry. In my work, questions regarding the formation of culture and attempts to reconfigure the Minahasan history are implemented through interdisciplinary experimentations. This approach touches on multiple disciplines—not only from art but also anthropology. Although I’m not sure that what happened to the Minahasan people is unique when compared to other marginalised indigenous communities on this planet, however what really fascinated me is this interconnection between intangible and tangible space in Minahasan culture. I think indigeneity has something to do not only with soil and land as geographical space, but something beyond that. ¹³ The Epoch of Mapalucene, Natasha Tontey (still) 2021 ¹⁴&nbsp;The Epoch of Mapalucene, Natasha Tontey (still) 2021, Installation view at transmediale Credit: Photo by Luca Girardini, CC NC SA 4.0 transmediale 2021 <img width="3280" height="1830" width_o="3280" height_o="1830" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/c85e67cd39b6468a9988f20e1b61c295c5379f6a95d775e0a75768640e9046a1/Screenshot-2021-03-20-at-21.03.19.png" data-mid="173471033" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/c85e67cd39b6468a9988f20e1b61c295c5379f6a95d775e0a75768640e9046a1/Screenshot-2021-03-20-at-21.03.19.png" /> <img width="1280" height="1920" width_o="1280" height_o="1920" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/56adba7f7717a47e5099a85cd27b8528acc4b591d771502f7b3f9a0f009765f4/LIUC_Transmediale2021_1484.jpeg" data-mid="173473468" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/56adba7f7717a47e5099a85cd27b8528acc4b591d771502f7b3f9a0f009765f4/LIUC_Transmediale2021_1484.jpeg" /> ︎ BACK TO MORE SLOW CONVERSATIONS https://objectlessons.space/Nawin-Nuthong-on-Archaeogaming-Dinner-Table-Histories-and-Building Mon, 06 Mar 2023 04:21:46 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Nawin-Nuthong-on-Archaeogaming-Dinner-Table-Histories-and-Building Nawin Nuthong on Archaeogaming, Dinner Table Histories and Building Multiverses of Curiosity Share: ︎&nbsp; &nbsp;︎ Slow Conversations Nawin Nuthong is a Thai contemporary artist and curator exploring the connections between history and cultural media through a wide range of mediums. Melding myths and legends with pop-cultural references from video games, comics, and film, he examines the role technology has to play in reconfiguring the learning and understanding of history. He is a graduate from King Mongkut’s Institute of Technology Ladkrabang with a major in film studies and digital media. His recent presentations with Bangkok CityCity Gallery include, THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS (2020), A room, where they are COEVALs [Precise at a dig site door] (2021), and Heaven Crumbles: The Marvellous Misadventures of Sudsakorn (2021). Nawin also participated in the 2022 edition of the Bangkok Art Biennale: CHAOS : CALM. Filed under: animation, archaeology, found objects, graphic design, installations, internet art <img width="2800" height="1870" width_o="2800" height_o="1870" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/40bfab64e4ec5a60485231238eaec6f884f7f19a9f06c870e4f9d806aa07fe1f/IMAGE3_NawinNuthong_Thai-Ancient-Guardian-and-the-Archaeologist-of-West-BlueVisual-Essay-Version.jpg" data-mid="170932489" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/40bfab64e4ec5a60485231238eaec6f884f7f19a9f06c870e4f9d806aa07fe1f/IMAGE3_NawinNuthong_Thai-Ancient-Guardian-and-the-Archaeologist-of-West-BlueVisual-Essay-Version.jpg" /> <img width="640" height="852" width_o="640" height_o="852" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/fc3712cc641abb65f4f52e868203093bb6e9f38f8bba43b314177e1e55768a17/10403691_335083146654216_6364753300228535695_n.jpg" data-mid="172638275" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/640/i/fc3712cc641abb65f4f52e868203093bb6e9f38f8bba43b314177e1e55768a17/10403691_335083146654216_6364753300228535695_n.jpg" /> ¹&nbsp;Kra-bi (กระบี่) and krabong (กระบอง). The wooden weapons are used in traditional performances, but this particular krabong design may also be found in the context of a religious altar at home. For our conversation, you’ve picked out a series of five objects and when you shared them with me, you were concerned that they were references that may be “too Thai”. At the same time, it seems like many of these objects or materials can be seen as building blocks towards an imagination of “Thai-ness”—as vague or contested that may be. Do you see these objects as being connected by an overarching narrative, or as individual entities that intrigue you for different reasons? I was working on Aleaf for the recent Bangkok Art Biennale, and have been thinking about it over and over again. The Thai context is central to a work like Aleaf, and I had asked myself if Aleaf was too “Thai” as well. I worked with a team to put Aleaf together—some thought that the references were too traditional, and others thought that they were not Thai enough. The objects that I have picked out for this interview reflect those discussions. To your point on “Thai-ness”, I think it is an important question within my practice as well. I am interested in how we are going to understand these governing systems with live under, which tries to balance democracy with the reigning monarchy. I want to dig through history, and I want to understand things more. I’ve been thinking about these topics in relation to map making and gaming a lot. <img width="2181" height="2727" width_o="2181" height_o="2727" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/127edd8129cdbf72da92b81db71bcf30c66d63dc7cd3fc298ddae8e9b80510bc/.png" data-mid="172638286" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/127edd8129cdbf72da92b81db71bcf30c66d63dc7cd3fc298ddae8e9b80510bc/.png" /> ² Trees in Buddha’s Biography (ต้นไม้ในพุทธประวัติ), Amunuay Korwanich (อำนวย คอวนิช)1970 Could you expand on some of the conversations you had with your team when making Aleaf? It sounds like these discussions were very interesting and dynamic, and I was wondering if there were discussions that you remember as being more significant? It might be awkward to discuss this now, but back in the day, I studied communications design and animation. I am surrounded by graphic designers and animators, and we learnt quite early on that a direct portrayal is not always necessary in telling a story. For Aleaf, some of my team members had a fine arts background. I wanted to set up the work as a conceptual yet contemporary object, and as the author, it made a lot of sense to me. At the same time, I’m always conscious of how I’m communicating these ideas to my team and to the viewer. I’m careful with how content channels are placed—what I call the traffic light of questions. Aleaf started with an interest in “Thai-ness”, but it might not be the most traditional interpretation of that idea. I don’t always know where I’m going with my research, so it’s also helpful when my co-creators tell me that something is not working or if something is too much.&nbsp; ³ Aleaf, Nawin Nuthong 2022, Installation View at Bangkok Art &amp; Culture Centre&nbsp; ⁴ Aleaf, Nawin Nuthong 2022, Installation View at Bangkok Art &amp; Culture Centre&nbsp;Credit: Preecha Pattaraumpornchai <img width="2048" height="1368" width_o="2048" height_o="1368" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a964721835c4c2f9a60be56ee272e7df6e055443289c40f7d2a38076da6feba7/312634631_10158393956780981_6366238633005690212_n.jpg" data-mid="170929671" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/a964721835c4c2f9a60be56ee272e7df6e055443289c40f7d2a38076da6feba7/312634631_10158393956780981_6366238633005690212_n.jpg" /> <img width="1672" height="2508" width_o="1672" height_o="2508" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/5d703b720cbe0107b76647e48e790f4beaf5208baaf1444a70f668c2e29a616d/6-Nawin-Nuthong--Aleaf--2022.-Video-Installation-_-Fiberglass-sculpture.-Installation-view.-Courtesy-of-the-artist--Bangkok-CityCity-Gallery-and-Bangkok-Art-Biennale.-Photo-by-Preecha-Pattaraumpornchai.jpg" data-mid="170929674" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/5d703b720cbe0107b76647e48e790f4beaf5208baaf1444a70f668c2e29a616d/6-Nawin-Nuthong--Aleaf--2022.-Video-Installation-_-Fiberglass-sculpture.-Installation-view.-Courtesy-of-the-artist--Bangkok-CityCity-Gallery-and-Bangkok-Art-Biennale.-Photo-by-Preecha-Pattaraumpornchai.jpg" /> <img width="840" height="1001" width_o="840" height_o="1001" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/4ab2033435a3dfa835d694641dab01c3c5de7c18ad028a1d2f4057b84fd6eb72/62-627004_classy-minecraft-bookcase-for-bookcase-minecraft-diy-minecraft-bookshelf-png.png" data-mid="170929313" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/840/i/4ab2033435a3dfa835d694641dab01c3c5de7c18ad028a1d2f4057b84fd6eb72/62-627004_classy-minecraft-bookcase-for-bookcase-minecraft-diy-minecraft-bookshelf-png.png" /> ⁵ Bookshelf block from Minecraft It sounds like a large part of the process for you is also trying to make sense of these various layers, and what to focus on in the context of a single project. Some of the objects you’ve picked out today are quite key to projects such as THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS, where you maintain a website dedicated to these objects and their “management”. Could you elaborate on why you decided to describe the process as one of “management” as compared to that of organisation or selection? These terms are not too far off in terms of their meaning, but “management” in particular suggests slightly different connotations, so I’d be interested in learning if you had that intention in mind when using such language. I thought about the word “management” a lot. I’m not sure if I’m using the right word here, but dealing with objects is my passion. I try to design installations in a way that might help people understand how I’m exploring an issue. I’ve been looking at these objects for a long time before I had the opportunity to work on this exhibition. There were so many objects that I was referencing in this project, and I wanted to arrange them in a very spontaneous way. I first met Kritti Tantasith at Ghost:2561, and we continued working together at Speedy Grandma. We both play a lot of games and learn a lot from one another as well. A lot of our conversations revolve around how a game is designed and its interface. Together, we looked at the objects I had been collecting and he began deconstructing many of them. We actually argued about using the word “management” a bit. However, the more we worked with these objects, the more complex this undertaking became, and we wanted to give this sense of how data expands. We also wanted to relook these objects again and again and thought of this iteration as the first chapter in a longer-term project. This was why we thought to use the term “management”. Looking at some of the projects that you're working on, diagrams and systems seem to be quite important. It’s also interesting that you talk about data as something that constantly expands, because this sort of research, cataloguing, and arranging could go on forever—but it’s also often important to think about how manageable a project is. Working on THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS&nbsp;actually led me towards constructing the word “archaeogaming”. The title of the show focuses on the spiritual. By collecting all these objects, my interest wasn’t in these gods per se, but how the aesthetic of their icons has changed over time. With the title, I imagined the gods to be busy morphing into a new visual icon. I don’t think I’m done with the work’s form yet, but I’m incredibly interested in the constellation that formed around it—from production to the relational dynamic, and even to the virtual. By collecting all these objects, my interest wasn’t in these gods per se, but how the aesthetic of their icons has changed over time. With the title, I imagined the gods to be busy morphing into a new visual icon. Speaking of THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS, the work was first installed at Bangkok CityCity Gallery in 2021. The website we talked about in the previous question demonstrates and organises much of the research that you have been doing. Could you tell us about how you see the physical iteration of the project in relation to its digital counterparts? Were the two developed concurrently, or did one emerge after the other in support? I worked on them at the same time. I have collected so many stories over time, and I really want to understand them—though not all at the same time. I wanted to place them all in one place so that I could exercise these ideas again and again. I didn’t design or plan for the website to run forever, or even for this long. But I’m still using the website, even today, to understand the objects that I’ve collected. I remember thinking that people in the installation might want to come back to these ideas after seeing the show. Some people also do not have the time to spend half a day in the exhibition, so this site was built with these visitors in mind. Instead of leaving visitors with photographs of the installation view, the website allows them to explore the funkiness of the installation in virtual space. ⁶ THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS, Nawin Nuthong 2021, Installation View at Bangkok CityCity Gallery ⁷ THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS, Nawin Nuthong 2021, Installation View at Bangkok CityCity Gallery <img width="2880" height="1924" width_o="2880" height_o="1924" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/4f9be4cb5ee58b22d15e9e7297310f085cf2dde8d775eb5da89235028baa9b9c/DSC00804-3.jpg" data-mid="170931789" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/4f9be4cb5ee58b22d15e9e7297310f085cf2dde8d775eb5da89235028baa9b9c/DSC00804-3.jpg" /> <img width="2880" height="1924" width_o="2880" height_o="1924" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/8651edab51931bbb7c785d39575d8743027d976834958acde3dc40e3952a5ee9/DSC00751-2.jpg" data-mid="170931786" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/8651edab51931bbb7c785d39575d8743027d976834958acde3dc40e3952a5ee9/DSC00751-2.jpg" /> <img width="1050" height="1571" width_o="1050" height_o="1571" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/aea1461e9f1c408aecb120829a7d0fc0bb2438dc40ede5ec105a6bab6ea20981/Civilization_V_Complete_Edition_350x200_3x-0.jpg" data-mid="170929314" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/aea1461e9f1c408aecb120829a7d0fc0bb2438dc40ede5ec105a6bab6ea20981/Civilization_V_Complete_Edition_350x200_3x-0.jpg" /> ⁸ Civilization V, 2010, developed by&nbsp;Firaxis Games <img width="495" height="700" width_o="495" height_o="700" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/efa58e527a448e6f54a2e89b6fd883a602211a65a4d9b784ed82f7328ee2ba54/street-fighter---sagat-thai-guardian-statues-set-of-2.png" data-mid="170929553" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/495/i/efa58e527a448e6f54a2e89b6fd883a602211a65a4d9b784ed82f7328ee2ba54/street-fighter---sagat-thai-guardian-statues-set-of-2.png" /> ⁹ Sagat Thai Guardian Set, produced to either be presented alone or to accompany the action figurine of Street Fighter character Sagat. There is a very clear interest in archaeology that underlies recent projects of yours, such as Aleaf. At the same time, the work does not present archaeology as a rigid discipline that deals squarely with antiquated artefacts. It is reimagined as a game, a technological tool or a site of construction. Could you elaborate on how you think about the relationship between archaeology and the realm of speculation? Why approach archaeology as a theoretical or hypothetical exercise at all? I respect sociological and anthropological work a lot. When I was developing Aleaf, “archaeogaming” became a helpful way for me to describe to others what my work was about. I love the word “archaeogaming”. It’s not a solid word. I also like the concept of excavation, and the ground as a thematic. In games, the ground is often the thing that players want to but will find difficult to dig into when finding treasure. In gaming communities, archaeogaming may refer to the overarching mythology or narrative of the game, or the act of finding easter eggs in a game. Some take this concept one step further by hanging into the game’s code itself or tracking the development team’s glitches in order to foresee what happens next in the game.&nbsp; There are also a lot of games themed around artefact or treasure-hunting, and there’s often a fictional story that underlies the entire game. One example of this is the figure of Ramkhamhaeng in Civilization V, which I also picked out for this conversation. Ramkhamhaeng is an ancient Thai king, and his image is considered sacred. As such, the developers of the game decided to use Thaksin’s face for the character instead. There are so many conflicting things that are layered onto each other here, and that’s how I composed the word “archaeogaming”. I started with research, and when I couldn’t go any further with that research, I used other tools such as fictional characters. This is why THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS starts with a child talking to a tree and expressing that he wishes to understand history. I have an interest in the practice of archaeology, but on the other hand, I’m also looking into cultural heritage right now. I can go to introductory classes about history, but what I really want to understand is what I call dinner table history. One way to explain what I mean by dinner table history is to use the analogy of a family dinner where the father gets into a heated argument with his daughter. At some point, the argument dies down because the father has had the last say. But his son, who has just finished up his game, is coming out of his room and sits at the dinner table. The argument is picked up once again, but this time, the son has the last say. Everyone at the table has a different line of reasoning, and they present their own version of the story. I really believe that these multiple versions are the most reflective of how most people think about political matters, for example. I’m from Phuket, and I grew up around expats. The school that I attended taught classes in English, and I remember an Australian teacher taking us to a field trip to Kanchanaburi, which is a significant World War II site. That was when we found out that our teacher’s father had gone through a very horrific ordeal during the war. This anecdote also sums up what I mean by dinner table history. Everyone at the table has a different line of reasoning, and they present their own version of the story. I really believe that these multiple versions are the most reflective of how most people think about political matters, for example. This tendency to collect or listen to little or smaller histories is reflected in installations such as Aleaf. Your works are all encompassing environments: objects, references and materials are layered one above another to create a dense, full-bodied experience. There is a sense that the space is one of organised chaos, and I was wondering if there were any aesthetic principles or references that guide the way in which you compose these installations? Do you work towards achieving a certain visual quality in making these works? I’ve been asked this question a lot, but I always answer it differently. Let me try to connect these various answers into one for you. Instead of visiting national parks or outdoor spaces, a lot of Thai children grow up going to large, indoor shopping malls. These malls often have a playground on the top floor where children can play, and they can be themed as well. There are two generations now that have grown up with these playgrounds as public space. We play games such as hide and seek in these playgrounds, and it influences how we understand space and learn how to play with one another. Some of the aesthetic in my work reference these playgrounds. I also started to expand my own research into how we tell stories because I love world building. I talk to P’Op, Akapol Op Sudasna, the owner of Bangkok CityCity Gallery, about film making a lot. He makes films too, so we spend a lot of time discussing the pre-production or conceptual phase with one another. Before you build Middle Earth for The Lord of the Rings, you need to produce hundreds and hundreds of sketches. You need to think about Tolkein’s own context, and the backdrop of World War I. I’m interested in this process of sketching thousands of Gandalfs, for example, before the director settles on the right one. I don’t think I would call myself a film maker, but I would say that I love the idea of dramatic need. In A room, where they are COEVALs, I placed some objects directly across from one another. I sited the white room in the work on Bhumibol Dam because I was interested in the conjunction of the Cold War with terraforming projects in Thailand, for example. ¹⁰ Aleaf, Nawin Nuthong 2022, Installation View at Bangkok Art &amp; Culture Centre ¹¹ Aleaf, Nawin Nuthong 2022, Installation View at Bangkok Art &amp; Culture Centre Credit: Preecha Pattaraumpornchai <img width="1600" height="1069" width_o="1600" height_o="1069" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a14d85299b589a5c717bfd7599db20a136c025221e5a5c49aeb30c56fbbed007/DSC00633-2-1600x1069.jpg" data-mid="170932062" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/a14d85299b589a5c717bfd7599db20a136c025221e5a5c49aeb30c56fbbed007/DSC00633-2-1600x1069.jpg" /> <img width="2508" height="1672" width_o="2508" height_o="1672" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/0babdae3d1efa4cda0a8a0a454d697026f26846724e44e1c07299165e27a4f64/Nawin-Nuthong--Aleaf--2022.-Video-Installation-_-Fiberglass-sculpture.-Installation-view.-Courtesy-of-the-artist--Bangkok-CityCity-Gallery-and-Bangkok-Art-Biennale.-Photo-by-Preecha-Pattaraumpornchai.jpg" data-mid="170932312" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/0babdae3d1efa4cda0a8a0a454d697026f26846724e44e1c07299165e27a4f64/Nawin-Nuthong--Aleaf--2022.-Video-Installation-_-Fiberglass-sculpture.-Installation-view.-Courtesy-of-the-artist--Bangkok-CityCity-Gallery-and-Bangkok-Art-Biennale.-Photo-by-Preecha-Pattaraumpornchai.jpg" /> Continuing the previous question around your installations as embodied experiences, they function almost as sets that audiences enter. In doing so, they are not neutral parties, but characters who are very much enveloped into the world that you’ve built. Is it important for you that a viewer experiences a different world or conception of time within your installation? I think this might be most evident in Aleaf. Aleaf&nbsp;started from that image of the single running horse, and that’s how I always work. That might make me a bad curator because I already have a clear form in mind. The question of time is a tricky one for me, because it’s always tied to Marxist theory. I understand Marxism, but I think my own background has given me a different perspective because I grew up in a factory. I also see the running horse as a metaphor for Rattanakosin, the Kingdom of Thailand, which might be why Aleaf is quite focused on the question of time. However, if you’re asking me whether I knew it would turn out this way, the answer is no. When I make installations, it’s quite process driven. The curator of Bangkok Art Biennale told me, “Tan, you need to be Marvel. Push out the multiverse and that kind of knowledge.” So, I started developing the work with the research I was doing, but I never stopped the research process. There was so much I wanted to put into the work, but you will see a black dots and crows everywhere in the installation—they all point towards this sort of storytelling that I hope I can push further in the future. Given my background in graphic designer, my instinct was that the storytelling element of the installation might not be very effective. But it turned out well, and I’m very happy with it. I keep trying to reinvent myself, and I keep telling myself not to run away from the white cube space by doing virtual projects because there are still lessons that I can learn from the white cube context. It’s quite clear that you don’t feel like you’re done with the projects that you’ve started on, which mean that many of your projects are long-term engagements that run on for several years and unfold across various permutations. There are many reasons why artists work on multi-year projects, and I was wondering if you could tell us a bit more about your own reasons for doing so. Why do you find yourself gravitating towards working in this way? I’ve only been practicing full time as an artist for about two years. I don’t know the future, but after finishing Aleaf, I know that the three projects that I’ve been working on are archaeology sites. They are markers of evidence, and they also present the sketches for how I got here. I’ve been told by a close collaborator, Podcharakrit To-im, that THE IMMORTALS ARE QUITE BUSY THESE DAYS is about archaeogaming, A room, where they are COEVALs is about coevalness, and Aleaf is about chronocentrism—but I think it all happened organically. With all my projects, I’m trying to understand the building blocks of how we’re connected. As I said earlier, I’m looking into cultural heritage now. This fits into A room, where they are COEVALs, although everything is linked to one another. When I talk about a childhood memory, or the idea of excavation, or even a drawing I’ve made, they are all connected in some way. With all my projects, I’m trying to understand the building blocks of how we’re connected. ¹² A room, where they are COEVALs, Nawin Nuthong 2021, Installation View at Bangkok CityCity Gallery ¹³ A room, where they are COEVALs, Nawin Nuthong 2021, Installation View at Bangkok CityCity Gallery <img width="750" height="501" width_o="750" height_o="501" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/bab4d23d2f8bdb6ed67255802152779cc3702611912dfbc8185f0ac61b0000e2/DSC02106.jpeg" data-mid="170932439" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/750/i/bab4d23d2f8bdb6ed67255802152779cc3702611912dfbc8185f0ac61b0000e2/DSC02106.jpeg" /> <img width="750" height="501" width_o="750" height_o="501" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/273ec6b5dbe2e8e72da2cec33c9beac60ed9c1ddd0469126cd55093fbcde4e7a/DSC02091-1.jpeg" data-mid="170932438" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/750/i/273ec6b5dbe2e8e72da2cec33c9beac60ed9c1ddd0469126cd55093fbcde4e7a/DSC02091-1.jpeg" /> Though art making constitutes a large part of your practice, you also have an active interest in curating and organising as well. Could you expand a bit on this aspect, including your work with Speedy Grandma, and how it informs the way you approach art making now? I think I’m always asking questions and trying to push things further. When I was young, I was always skeptical as to why I had to pray to the Buddha, for example. I was always very scared of hell. When I watched Aladdin, I knew that if I ever met the Genie, all three of my wishes would be spent on wishing that I won’t have to go the hell. When I went to a Christian school when I was older, I committed to the religion because I was told that if I did so, I would go to heaven. At the same time, I grew up in a province where I had Muslim neighbours and colleagues. It got me wondering: why can’t they go to heaven too? I started thinking of different ways around the problem. I tell this story to illustrate how this one thing can develop—all because one child did not want to go to hell. I also think my high school education prepared me to deal with data and raw knowledge, and how to analyse this information. With my art practice, I’ve been drawing for a long time. When I was young, I was very proud of the fact that I could draw. I would not know how to turn on the TV, but I would be able to draw quite well. It’s been eight years since I started working in the arts. I was introduced to curating when I was in university, and in it, I saw the possibility of making the job my own. I enjoy developing the works of my friends, and I learn a lot in the process of doing so. That was also when I got involved with Speedy Grandma. It was founded by Unchalee Anantawat and Thomas Menard. At that point in time, we had a real problem with gatekeepers in the Thai art ecosystem. There were new graduates who were returning to Thailand after spending some time away, but they did not have much space to express themselves, so Speedy Grandma became an important space. I started interning there about four years after they were established. There, I learnt a lot about installing works and met a lot of different people. I was lucky to have had that chance, and the time I spent there really fed my curiosity. &nbsp; I’m still curating and organizing now because I want to create exhibitions that place the artefact next to the conceptual, and in conversation with the artist—spaces where you can bounce questions around. I’m working with Bangkok CityCity Gallery now as well. Beyond working as a practicing artist, management, organising, and curating helps to satisfy my own curiosity. The political situation in Thailand now is also confusing, and everyone’s struggling with it. Speedy Grandma and Bangkok CityCity Gallery respond to this context differently. If there are protests, people might gather at Speedy Grandma after. During the Covid pandemic, Lee and her friends collected medicine, pulse oximeters, and oxygen concentrators, and gave them out to the community. They also helped to connect patients to the right emergency hotlines. Bangkok CityCity Gallery organizes programmes and exhibitions that go beyond the perimeters of contemporary art to be in dialogue with other creative industries such as design and architecture. In doing so, they reach a larger circle of people, including people who might hold different political views to my own. I’m still curating and organizing now because I want to create exhibitions that place the artefact next to the conceptual, and in conversation with the artist—spaces where you can bounce questions around. ︎ BACK TO MORE SLOW CONVERSATIONS https://objectlessons.space/ikkibawiKrrr-on-Small-Moss-Like-Acts-Moving-Like-a-Band-and-The Mon, 10 Jul 2023 08:01:56 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/ikkibawiKrrr-on-Small-Moss-Like-Acts-Moving-Like-a-Band-and-The ikkibawiKrrr on Small Moss-Like Acts, Moving Like a Band, and The Social Memories of Songs Share: ︎&nbsp; &nbsp;︎ Slow Conversations ikkibawiKrrr is a visual research band founded in 2021 with the current members being gyeol Ko, Jungwon Kim, and Jieun Cho. ikkibawiKrrr explores the connection between plants, natural phenomena, humanity, and ecology. ikkibawiKrrr is a combination of ‘ikki’ meaning moss and ‘bawi’ meaning rock, representing "moss rock," and ‘Krrr’ is an onomatopoeic term. Moss adapts in the boundary layer of air and soil and expands its world depending on its surroundings. ikkibawiKrrr aims to apply the way moss survives to their projects and attitudes, studying the tropics, seaweeds, and collaborating with farmers. The concept of living on its own terms, becoming part of the movement and expanding the boundary layer, is crucial for ikkibawiKrrr. ikkibawiKrrr explores the broader concept of "migration," going beyond the human socio-political context and delving into the temporality of plants, communities, and&nbsp; all inhabitants of the Earth. Major exhibitions by ikkibawiKrrr include the 14th Gwangju Biennale: Soft and Weak like Water (Gwangju, 2023), documenta 15 (Kassel, Germany, 2022), Running Underground (Elephant Space, Seoul, 2022), Resbakan: Solidarity Event Lumbung FILM (UP Film Institute, University of the Philippines, Diliman, Quezon City, 2022), and Suwon Public Art City Urban Im;pulse Art Im;pulse (Suwon Culture Foundation, 2021), among others. Filed under: film, installations, music, performance <img width="2560" height="1600" width_o="2560" height_o="1600" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/7d788fba20ed7399cfab1ca4f66636927ac4459e28cc40692ae73f0af625641c/seaweed-story-ss2.png" data-mid="186305228" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/7d788fba20ed7399cfab1ca4f66636927ac4459e28cc40692ae73f0af625641c/seaweed-story-ss2.png" /> <img width="800" height="1130" width_o="800" height_o="1130" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/b3d982991cee3f872941c6490d14b4a56bbbddb9c8f393a9e546b28ad61967d3/15822481349406.jpg" data-mid="185880059" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/800/i/b3d982991cee3f872941c6490d14b4a56bbbddb9c8f393a9e546b28ad61967d3/15822481349406.jpg" /> ¹&nbsp;Gathering Moss (이끼와 함께), Robin Wall Kimmerer 2003 Let’s start our conversation with your collective choice of Robin Wall Kimmerer’s book, Gathering Moss. You mentioned over email that the title, when translated into Korean, reads as With Moss instead. Though the book draws from the author’s context of North America, moss is everywhere. Could all of you share a little more about what you enjoyed about the book? In particular, it would be great to hear if there were specific chapters or quotes from the book that have moved the way you approach working as ikkibawiKrrr now. There's a phrase that says moss is a very small being that changes the air and soil on the surface. We found this very impressive. We read several books related to plants while working. This includes the book Pflanzenjäger by Kej Hielscher, which shows how many species of plants were hunted and forcibly moved from their native habitats due to human greed during the colonial era. Trees and plants are easier to objectify than animals. The attitude and approach in Gathering Moss influenced us. It reminded us of the fact that art is an attitude and a practice that can be accomplished gradually through small acts. We hope we embody this in our work. I’d like to spend some time discussing the works you presented as part of documenta 15. Tropical Story is a haunting filmic collage of various sites across Micronesia, Indonesia and Jeju Island that saw fierce fighting at the height of World War II. In order to make horrific stories feel more immediate or urgent, artists sometimes tap into visual strategies that prioritise realism or its consequences on a human community. Instead, Tropical Story centres lush, overgrown, and unruly environments. Could you tell us a bit more about this approach and why you decided to unearth the ghosts of war through nature’s perspective? Before starting our work, we studied historical facts and sociological perspectives with the scholar Cho Sung-yoon, an honorary professor at Jeju National University. Most of the available data regarding Koreans who were forcibly mobilised during that time can only be found in Japanese labour mobilization statistics, and there is a lack of direct information from Korea itself. This is partly due to the imbalanced power relations that defined the colonial era. We wanted to explore those traces, but when we visited the actual locations, only ruins and nature remained. We embraced those scenes as they were, and they became the main focus of our work. The scenes in the video work include footage that was filmed in Guam and Jeju Island, and they can also be connected to the current state of war. Though the video examines stories from the past, we haven’t actually moved away from them fully as they still reflect the current military situation in the Pacific Islands, Okinawa, Jeju Island, and Taiwan. Through the video’s environmental focus, we hope that the historical stories of migration and forced mobilisation can take on a sense of contemporary relevance. ² Tropical Story, ikkibawiKrrr 2022, Installation view at Museum of Natural History Ottoneum ³&nbsp; Tropical Story, ikkibawiKrrr2022, Installation view at Museum of Natural History Ottoneum <img width="7933" height="5291" width_o="7933" height_o="5291" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/c04cd7ecf2c591be74217e574066d0ae0ab9032e5a899845869e05f21a091610/tropical-story-in1-min.jpg" data-mid="186305813" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/c04cd7ecf2c591be74217e574066d0ae0ab9032e5a899845869e05f21a091610/tropical-story-in1-min.jpg" /> <img width="7587" height="5061" width_o="7587" height_o="5061" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/54ba7bce62592555aceef5940062f95a1e90f8b440e2aa8d5890ced12b3c2b50/tropical-story-in2-min.jpg" data-mid="186305817" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/54ba7bce62592555aceef5940062f95a1e90f8b440e2aa8d5890ced12b3c2b50/tropical-story-in2-min.jpg" /> ⁴ Ganggangsullae (강강술래) performance The other work that was presented as part of documenta 15 was Seaweed Story. The work spotlights the haenyeo of Jeju Island as their song is the central thread upon which the video is strung together. Seaweed Story is one example of your wider interest in that which is intangible, and this perhaps also ties into the fact that ganggangsullae was one of the reference points that you all picked out for this conversation as well. Could you walk us through the process of how you approached documenting the undocumented, and some of the tensions or contradictions that you encountered when doing so? There are many advantages to using documentaries as a way of narrating reality. The haenyeo have received a lot of attention in the fields of documentary photography and video because of they are socioculturally unique. Given this context, we chose to focus on their songs instead with Seaweed Story. Through the haenyeo’s songs and the video, we wanted to be able to reveal the time they lived among the unique rocks of Jeju Island. Because they breathe deeply in the water, we think that those breaths are also revealed in the songs they sing. In addition, we produced Seaweed Story as a song that comforts the history and time─the wounds and suffering of the island that were revealed in Tropical Story. As you mentioned, we are always interested in community dances such as ganggangsullae, although Seaweed Story features song and not dance. Documentaries usually deal with how hard life is for sea women divers and how painful their lives are. However, we were more interested in the fun and unique experiences they've had. This is not revealed in our video work, but when we met the haenyeo, we asked them about the waves and winds of the ocean they experienced, and the relationships between turtles and dolphins. This content was instead shared in workshops with children in Kassel and elsewhere. Through the haenyeo’s songs and the video, we wanted to be able to reveal the time they lived among the unique rocks of Jeju Island. Because they breathe deeply in the water, we think that those breaths are also revealed in the songs they sing. ⁵ Seaweed Story, ikkibawiKrrr2022, Installation view at Museum of Natural History Ottoneum ⁶ Seaweed Story, ikkibawiKrrr2022, Installation view at Museum of Natural History Ottoneum <img width="7676" height="5120" width_o="7676" height_o="5120" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/cb00d7366362a370cba86d5e542af9d06ffe4bc115ce1d067a8b47689cbd5465/seaweed-story-in1-min.jpg" data-mid="186305811" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/cb00d7366362a370cba86d5e542af9d06ffe4bc115ce1d067a8b47689cbd5465/seaweed-story-in1-min.jpg" /> <img width="7469" height="4982" width_o="7469" height_o="4982" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/9bbcf114662d53bfc81e212971ecbee2de5801b6ae26e5183342ca2920b7da8c/seaweed-story-in2-min.jpg" data-mid="186305815" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/9bbcf114662d53bfc81e212971ecbee2de5801b6ae26e5183342ca2920b7da8c/seaweed-story-in2-min.jpg" /> You’ve noted elsewhere that instead of being referred to as an artist collective, the three of you think of yourselves as a “visual research band”. This term is so interdisciplinary, and brings to mind associations of synaesthesia. Tell me more about why you prefer being referred to in this way, and the larger role of music within your own collective practice. We used the term ‘visual research band’ so as to not to be boring. As you say, we like existing at the intersection of different disciplines. We have a desire to make art that does not exist only as art. We want to incorporate cultural and social aspects, cartoons, songs, and all sorts of media into our work. This means that we move like a band. Sometimes we collaborate with musicians, even though we don't produce music. We think that music plays a major role in our communities. Music and dance provide an outlet for the people that we work with to express themselves, and sometimes we learn something from music. For example,&nbsp;Seaweed Story features a song by the Hado Haenyeo Choir. We felt and learned about the time and space the haenyeo lived in through their song and their conductor-composer’s, Seungchul Bang, attitude. It implied not only their expressions, but also their speech, attitudes, and more. We have a desire to make art that does not exist only as art. We want to incorporate cultural and social aspects, cartoons, songs, and all sorts of media into our work. <img width="1020" height="679" width_o="1020" height_o="679" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/553a0a73b5201d33582066211e7128f5d6ab8bf8ca72c0e8ee5959e9312da017/smoa.PNG" data-mid="185881598" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/553a0a73b5201d33582066211e7128f5d6ab8bf8ca72c0e8ee5959e9312da017/smoa.PNG" />⁷ Small Museum of Art, Park Chan-kyong 2019, Installation view at MMCA Another work you selected for our conversation was Park Chan-kyong's Small Museum of Art. First presented at the artist’s solo presentation at MMCA in 2019, it re-presents works by other artists in a maze-like configuration. In doing so, it also asks visitors to consider the role and authority of museums in formalising the way we understand the history of art. In many ways, the work you do does not always sit comfortably within the museum context either. Though your works may be presented in museum spaces, it also feels like your work can be shown in many different contexts. How have you approached your collective relationship to museum spaces—are they inadequate spaces of display, or conduits that enable new encounters? mixrice's activities exist mainly outside of the white cube, and may more commonly be found on the street. For us, it is still difficult to do experimental work within the space of the museum. Yet, we still want to connect artworks that we showcase in the museum to the fields outside. When we exhibit at the museum, we think of these works as a trace of something that first happened in the field—moments that happened beyond the museum’s walls. In that sense, the museum becomes a place of empathy and sharing. Park Chan-kyong’s Small Museum of Art showed us how art museums and art in Korea could possibly exist beyond the archetypes that have been set by traditional Western art museums. Furthermore, the idea of being present in the here and now is important to us. In our work, we always try to think about the here and now, in addition to the specific contexts that we may find ourselves in. ⁸ Seaweed Story, ikkibawiKrrr 2022 ⁹ Seaweed Story, ikkibawiKrrr2022 <img width="2560" height="1600" width_o="2560" height_o="1600" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/7d788fba20ed7399cfab1ca4f66636927ac4459e28cc40692ae73f0af625641c/seaweed-story-ss2.png" data-mid="186305228" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/7d788fba20ed7399cfab1ca4f66636927ac4459e28cc40692ae73f0af625641c/seaweed-story-ss2.png" /> <img width="2560" height="1600" width_o="2560" height_o="1600" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/aac1657b4f797e05e9c0002475c43d59c3a638101ecc002f00bcf407fb1aa224/seaweed-story-ss1.png" data-mid="186305243" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/aac1657b4f797e05e9c0002475c43d59c3a638101ecc002f00bcf407fb1aa224/seaweed-story-ss1.png" /> In recent months, you’ve spent some time travelling and engaging with other artists and artist-collectives (for example, gudskul in Jakarta, Indonesia). Particularly coming off the end of documenta 15, how have these moments expanded or coloured the way all of you approach making work together? There is a word in Indonesian called nongkrong, which may be translated to "let's kill time together” in Korean. Our Indonesian friends often used this word. This culture of nongkrong, or of spending time together, can also be found in Korean culture. Jieun remembers how this was expressed in Korea during the '90s. Senior artists and colleagues would run into each other in museum, on the streets, in stalls, in parks, or whenever they were free to do nongkrong. When they gathered together, they talked about art, about society, and about what was possible for them. However, everything moves with efficiency and consumption today. It has made nongkrong impossible in contemporary Korean society. People find themselves within a structure that makes hanging out difficult. They only see each other if they have meetings or if they are working with one another. We have spoken about the importance of nongkrong many times, and now that documenta 15 is over, we continue to practice this by communicating with the friends we met there. To end, I’d like to discuss the films you curated for The One Minutes. I was struck by this line in the trailer: “We focus on plants revealing their presence by themselves”. As you continue to make more work that examines the nuances of ecology, do you feel like you’re endeavouring to make works where the human element decreases so much that the works themselves aspire towards becoming increasingly non-human? We don't believe in a single direction, and our thematic interests always change. There are moments where we are critical of humans, while there are also other times where we focus on ecological beings. The works curated for The One Minutes have a stronger emphasis on plants. When observing landscapes filled with plants, it can feel as if they reveal their presence to us like extraterrestrial beings. The months of July and August in Korea are overflowing with lushness. We use the expression ‘overflowing’ to describe scenarios where plants flourish in places that are untouched by human hands. Within these ruins, we are also witnessing the free ecosystem of plants and animals covering the ruins. It seems that there is a growing number of people who believe that the human world should be diminished these days. We have lived in a world that has been too expansive until now. We don't believe in a single direction, and our thematic interests always change. There are moments where we are critical of humans, while there are also other times where we focus on ecological beings. ︎ BACK TO MORE SLOW CONVERSATIONS https://objectlessons.space/Fyerool-Darma-on-Re-Mixing-Metaphors-Searching-For-Irregular-Patterns Wed, 14 Jun 2023 08:56:51 +0000 Object Lessons Space https://objectlessons.space/Fyerool-Darma-on-Re-Mixing-Metaphors-Searching-For-Irregular-Patterns Fyerool Darma on Re-Mixing Metaphors, Searching For Irregular Patterns and Questioning The Materials We Mine BY YUNTENG SEET Share: ︎&nbsp; &nbsp;︎ Slow Conversations Issue: On Technological Materiality Fyerool Darma is an artist based in Singapore. He draws on an extensive visual vocabulary from popular culture, archival material, literary references, the Internet and the artist’s lived experiences. Engaging actively with object and material experimentations, his installations often incorporate elements of imaging, sculpture and digital or time based media. Filed under: graphic design, installations, internet art, sound, technology, textiles, text <img width="1600" height="1067" width_o="1600" height_o="1067" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/336935e925cdc7ca46ce20222b6811b84547d888f457f62c900f8bfbd184b2b3/landscapes-5.jpg" data-mid="182022845" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/336935e925cdc7ca46ce20222b6811b84547d888f457f62c900f8bfbd184b2b3/landscapes-5.jpg" /> <img width="750" height="658" width_o="750" height_o="658" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/e691fc25e306b96dc1bf5a6d7ced9cbb05d16933d7eaf1792ebdc95d00b77e08/Gertie-the-Dinosaur.jpeg" data-mid="182022836" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/750/i/e691fc25e306b96dc1bf5a6d7ced9cbb05d16933d7eaf1792ebdc95d00b77e08/Gertie-the-Dinosaur.jpeg" /> ¹&nbsp; Screenshot from Gertie the Dinosaur, directed by Winsor McCay 1914 [Accessed through Open Culture, https://youtu.be/32pzHWUTcPc, 1 December 2022, 3:17 PM] <img width="2222" height="1814" width_o="2222" height_o="1814" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f810328dba0e2d6c5709dc730ca8cca0f3622adf578ed174dab2475bc79e3334/Upin-_-Ipin.png" data-mid="182022849" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/f810328dba0e2d6c5709dc730ca8cca0f3622adf578ed174dab2475bc79e3334/Upin-_-Ipin.png" /> ² Screenshot from Upin &amp; Ipin —&nbsp;Dino Land Adventures (Season 11) 2017[Screen captured in 2022 by Wardah Mohamad] Let’s start with the selection that you picked out for this conversation. Two of the images strike me immediately: screenshots from Gertie the Dinosaur and Upin &amp; Ipin — Dino Land Adventures. The former is from the earliest animated film to feature a dinosaur, and latter is an episode from Malaysian CGI animated series where the characters go on a journey through prehistoric times. Why did you choose these animations, and how do you see them in relation to each other? These entry points were prompts to think about concepts of time and life, the fantasy of dinosaurs, and the distances we have crossed as a civilisation. When one thinks about dinosaurs from a human perspective, there is an element of fantasy. Of course they existed, but I question the imagination around what contributed to their extinction, and what we have mined from the stories of dinosaurs. Beyond that, I also have a fascination about how there's a constant search or desire to watch the other, which in this respect, is the non-human, the dinosaur. Gertie the Dinosaur, was one of the earliest animated films. The dinosaur is especially positioned in between extremes where it’s either adorable, or it’s very violent. A more contemporary example of this would be Jurassic Park. I always question, who's the one reading or watching it? For Upin and Ipin, the time period and context is quite interesting. Of course, it's not the earliest example of animation within Southeast Asia, nor the earliest animation that deals with ideas of dinosaurs and their histories. But what I picked up was the storyline&nbsp;—&nbsp;of going into a certain time, the idea of return and the loop. When the characters go back in time, they are in a loop. However, they also exit that loop after a certain period. These two metaphors of the dinosaurs are, for me, timestamps. They represent the concepts I invested time towards exploring, which resulted in the material obsessions and fascinations I had. I also like to think of them more metaphorically as another language device. Additionally, the simulation of the dinosaur as a beast and monster is a recurring theme in displays. Lastly the idea of the Jurassic period, as the period from which fossil fuels came from, is also one that is interesting to reference. These are the kind of questions I was trying to point out. ³ Screenshot 14-12-2021 at 09.09 AM (2021), Fyerool Darma 2021, Installation view at Yeo Workshop ⁴ Screenshot 02-12-2021 at 01.01 AM, Fyerool Darma, 2021, Installation view at Yeo Workshop. <img width="1600" height="2400" width_o="1600" height_o="2400" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/2acf8f5205e560796ec4c8e1d45d42ce937690a21b992cedcaadf54066fb228b/landscapes-3.jpg" data-mid="182022843" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/2acf8f5205e560796ec4c8e1d45d42ce937690a21b992cedcaadf54066fb228b/landscapes-3.jpg" /> <img width="2667" height="4000" width_o="2667" height_o="4000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/1720ff457adef57b2302a9fcf47a82b9ae8517adf237580ca5ac2883a5bf011e/landscapes-1.jpg" data-mid="182022841" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/1720ff457adef57b2302a9fcf47a82b9ae8517adf237580ca5ac2883a5bf011e/landscapes-1.jpg" /> The main place I've seen dinosaurs feature in your work is in your previous exhibition at Yeo Workshop, l♠nd$¢♠pΞ$, where you included a dinosaur colouring sheet on the back of the exhibition handout. Can you tell me about the colouring sheet and what animated dinosaurs have brought to your work? It grew from an intention to just play. The exhibition l♠nd$¢♠pΞ$ was an exercise or several exercises from conversations, sharing, and playing with curator Dr. Karin Oen. We didn't exchange readings but we shared gems in the forms of sounds and music, through which we tried to find a vibe we could play around with. That was when I was much more aware of the changes in my understanding of certain visual metaphors. For instance, I think of dinosaurs as patterns with several codified meanings. I think everybody has their own ideas of what the word “Jurassic” or “prehistoric” means, much like how some outside Southeast Asia have preconceived ideas of the Southeast Asia landscape. It's almost revealed as another prehistoric layer. From that perspective, are we then the dinosaurs, and how do we move out of that misconception? The inclusion of dinosaurs also came from a pure moment of wanting people to see something that’s not in colour and prompt an urge to draw on it. But I think everybody just loves dinosaurs. We tested it out on audiences as an invitation for them to grab and use it as material of their own. This was also soon after the pandemic lockdown measures were eased, and there were many sensitivities around interactive works. It felt like the lockdown created a stop or a pause, but also a phobia around the things that we touch. This was a way for us to respond to the landscape of that period. ⁵ Exhibition handout, Fyerool Darma: l♠nd$¢♠pΞ$, 15 January – 27 February 2022, Yeo Workshop, Singapore Credit: Colouring sheet design by studio cinoti <img width="3508" height="2480" width_o="3508" height_o="2480" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/9806141c6879f5383d37a74fab64f32159372fe2f6fbb4f01eb37941cfbb933c/landscapes-2.jpg" data-mid="182022842" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/9806141c6879f5383d37a74fab64f32159372fe2f6fbb4f01eb37941cfbb933c/landscapes-2.jpg" /> <img width="750" height="1334" width_o="750" height_o="1334" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/659fdfffaa216c3bac40bf4d96bab8d9b8b027523ed1be4f88bedddb612c8045/Plus-Plus.jpeg" data-mid="182022846" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/750/i/659fdfffaa216c3bac40bf4d96bab8d9b8b027523ed1be4f88bedddb612c8045/Plus-Plus.jpeg" /> ⁶ Photo of pattern made with Plus Plus toy as assembled with Dahlia in 2022 Credit: Fyerool Darma On the topic of play and use of patterns, another image that you selected for this conversation was a photograph of this colourful interlocking pattern made with Plus Plus, a plastic toy, that was assembled with Dahlia, your daughter. You’ve spoken a bit about playing, how would you describe the place of play in your practice? It's a constant. For me, play doesn't have to be an action. It can just be a thought, because that's where certain actions get exercised in your mind. But in terms of its physical materiality, I constantly play and test if, for example, material A and material Z can be mixed together. It’s through these strategies and methodologies that you understand if certain things vibe together or not. It's almost like music, where certain notes can never fall into one song together. But once you find the right theme, then you can play that rhythm. I use that philosophy in my own building of knowledge as well. There are moments where I read a lot, but I will also dissect every single thing and start playing with theories, writers and so on. One example of this would be me pulling them back to non-serious subjects, and that’s where the prompts of Upin and Ipin and Gertie the Dinosaur come into play. There’s a constant conversation of how to relate it back to other individuals. It's a constant mode of communicating or creating metaphors. For me, play doesn't have to be an action. It can just be a thought, because that's where certain actions get exercised in your mind. It's interesting that you use the word metaphor. For me, I see that as making connections between two things that don't seem to be connected, and you're bringing them into conversation. What's interesting about the metaphorical is that it doesn't need to have a meaning or reason. It's also a codified language. For example, I don't even understand certain metaphors, as writers have their own embedded codes, and it's the beauty of language. Metaphors also never exist within a binary, and they can have multiple meanings. It’s something that I find interesting, especially when I start playing with or re-mixing different materials with different scopes. Another way we’ve talked about your work in the past is the notion of remixing or foraging of different sources. Your practice draws on the diverse, dense and shifting hypervisual stream of information in digital communication, but also from historical archives and research materials. These references often transcend history and geography and are brought in conversation with each other. Could you share how you make decisions about bringing materials together, and what you choose to include or exclude? Or is a lot of it quite intuitive? Well that’s the thing, intuition really guides my entire practice. But at the same time, intuition also creates the glitch, which I'm always looking for. I only realised it three years ago — I think the constant search and question I have is: What is the relevance of these materials that I use with the time that we're experiencing? Do they have their space and do they have an economic or cultural value? But at the same time, what's interesting about the things I employ in my exercises is that what guides them first is always the vibe and how much I feel for them. Sometimes I feel it's ancestral intelligence that speaks, and their voices guide it. I tried to distil and work purely with materials quite recently. One of the most recent examples is the Screenshot series. It started off as a fascination with carbon fibre vinyl and understanding the components that make up this amazing material. Carbon fibre is very light, almost weightless, but with incredible strength. Engineers wanted to use carbon fibre to make vessels that can bring individuals to outer space. Carbon fibre was also first used in some of the first light bulb displays of the Chicago World's Fair in 1893. The Exposition also had its complexities — there were human zoos. So this idea of lighting and display raises questions of what's being displayed, who gets to display, and who gets funding for it. These get woven into the material. I like that it adds a different layer to how we view or understand exhibitions. It's these kinds of narratives that I'm constantly interweaving within my work, not just as a way to talk about the history, but to amplify the question of how much have we moved beyond the parameters of history. Who are we speaking to, and what are the pursuits we are working towards? ⁷ Screenshot 22-11-2022 at 22:22 AM (siu dai UHD) featuring Lé Luhur and LKS, Fyerool Darma2022 <img width="1430" height="953" width_o="1430" height_o="953" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f7b4158a1993da035d160b399cd9ed110412884eb8f8c9c8e5821dec72addde3/screenshot.jpg" data-mid="182022848" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/f7b4158a1993da035d160b399cd9ed110412884eb8f8c9c8e5821dec72addde3/screenshot.jpg" /> <img width="1000" height="869" width_o="1000" height_o="869" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/c27810513bdea561d0b7389029922dfe07e47bd54669aa3cd7422987777b83b3/Carbon-Fibre.jpg" data-mid="182022850" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/c27810513bdea561d0b7389029922dfe07e47bd54669aa3cd7422987777b83b3/Carbon-Fibre.jpg" /> ⁸ Screenshot of 'Carbon fibres reinforcing a stable matrix of epoxy' from DragonPlate For this conversation, you also selected a screenshot of ‘Carbon fibres reinforcing a stable matrix of epoxy’ from DragonPlate, a carbon-fibre composite supplier. For me, the cross-section of the industrial material simultaneously evokes digital flatness and fossilised stone. Why are you drawn to this image, and do you see these tensions inherent in other materials? DragonPlate produces materials for construction. They get their carbon fibre from China and tweak them to their requirements. In this image, the carbon fibre is used as a reinforcing tool for building and construction work. What’s interesting is that it’s made with a twill weave, where multiple strands and components are translated into one object. This is something I was trying to outline in my work as well — all these materials come from different parts of the world, and they get translated into a new material. It also goes back to the idea of weaving, which I've had a fascination with. The reason why carbon fibres are so strong is because of the interlocking weave. Weaving is an ancient knowledge, and it's something that is constantly employed within the industrial economy. Carbon fibre is used in shoes, bridges, buildings, bicycle frames and even sunglasses or spectacles. It's quite strange to think that such an easy method basically converts textile techniques into a hardened material. Weaving itself is also a humanist approach to making. We are constantly interweaving narratives, all the time. That influences my approach in art making, and in some ways is a metaphor for how to experience the world. In my artworks, I haven't reached the point where I can actually use carbon fibres for my frames — we're still developing the R&amp;D side. But we use vinyl to cover aluminium alloy frames. Aluminium alloy is also an interesting material, it’s mostly used in space shuttles and rockets because of its lightweightedness and similarity to the properties of carbon fibres. For the series Screenshots, we used frames covered with vinyl to give the illusion of carbon fibre, and at the same time it acts as an added skin. Because when you protect something, you are also hiding it away from view — there's always an obfuscation that I’m playing with. On that note of skins, textures, and patterns that mimic materials, you also manipulate the physical and the digital in many of your works. For example, in l♠nd$¢♠pΞ$, your woven pieces were re-weavings of printed images on polyester threads, which were presented alongside digital reproductions of songket textiles or other traditional weaves. What is your approach to craft and creation, and how do you think about this tension between the physical and digital? It was the result of several accidents and jumps, but what guided it was thinking about how I could weave the narratives together. I was thinking about the idea of translations — translating images onto surfaces and interfaces — and how we could capture moving images that we constantly consume everyday. Textiles, to me, are a type of interface, as well as a protective skin. I was also thinking about painting: questioning what a painting is, in today’s context, and the moment that paintings became mobile. Today, paintings and artworks are expected to be mobile to travel to art fairs and shows, but in earlier days, textiles were actually the cultural materials that were mobile. When interweaving all these ideas together, the transmission of the image just became natural. It came from a child-like fascination to experiment with weaving. Gradually I realised that through weaving, I was not obfuscating the image. Instead, I was failing to completely capture it. In that sense, I was actually making a painting, but instead of using the brushes or paint, I was going thread by thread with printed images. That's why I think of them more as imaging, rather than collage or assemblage. It was also interesting to consider it as another exercise in creating distance from the work. I asked myself, how can I translate that where the hand is not seen? It's an aspiration to reach that almost perfect moment — that's why weaving is a nice exercise, because it allows for the precision to be filled.&nbsp; Textiles, to me, are a type of interface, as well as a protective skin. ⁹ Fyerool Darma: l♠nd$¢♠pΞ$ 2022, Installation view at Yeo Workshop <img width="3000" height="2000" width_o="3000" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/ea61235844ed20840d241170ead28303b5cf7cbd43261527fdd1177c69fb1d0a/landscapes-4.jpeg" data-mid="182022844" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/ea61235844ed20840d241170ead28303b5cf7cbd43261527fdd1177c69fb1d0a/landscapes-4.jpeg" /> The vinyl and images of textiles were presented as multi-layered installations which inhabit both three- and two-dimensional space. How has the physicality of a space you work in and the exhibitionary format affected your working processes? I think there were several elements that really affected how the installation looked. We weren't thinking of designing, but rather how we could make a painting from non-painterly material. When we first installed it at Yeo Workshop, the vinyl was all pasted beautifully, and I moved around the space and did my dance — cutting forms and images from my memory bank in a decisive moment by hand. It reminded me of Lucio Fontana’s slashed works. That moment became so ridiculous, it pushed paintings into a different spectrum. I was thinking about how I could push the material of vinyl, because it’s used everywhere, in advertising, design, and art. The vinyl itself becomes the skin to these cosmetic surfaces and it changes the effect and scale of one's experience. The space and the walls become the canvas, the vinyl is the gesso, but after cutting up and rearranging, that’s when the painting takes form. The collaborators I brought in also affected the works. When shown in Singapore, we had the liberty of time, so they assisted in drawing out or carving forms based on a word or sound trigger. But when the work was shown in London and Korea, unfortunately we didn't have enough hands to assist with the cutting. With the new series, Screenshot, I work with a set of collaborators who come into the studio. We first settle on a vibe or sound that will loop for four to eight hours. It reminded me of when I was employed as a worker in a production-line-like environment, punching in keys on a computer. I used that as a template in a space for art production to play with areas of experience I could affect. I asked my collaborators to slice the vinyl and paste them in a manner that would create an irregular pattern. In fact, it’s hard for many to reach an irregular pattern —they tend to follow the pattern down to the inch. So we switch up the beat, and that’s where an irregular pattern can come into effect, and new patterns emerge. Screenshot is actually an exercise in finding irregular patterns and modes. Now we’re also figuring out how this exercise may be freed from a particular size or format, so the irregularities can go beyond the restriction of the frame. ¹⁰ Gong 3000, Jonathan Kusuma 2021 It's interesting how, even if you aspire for irregularity, randomness, or glitch, there are some parameters within which they take place. This seems like a good time to talk about Gong 3000 by Jonathan Kusuma, which you also picked out for this conversation. It’s a hypnotic techno track built around the massive sound of a synthetic gong, with gamelan sounds woven in at the end. What was your response to this piece, and how do you see that response reflected in the works you’ve made? I've always been a big listener of Jonathan Kusuma’s works because I learnt a lot about rhythm in between gestures. Gong 3000 really reminded me of Jose Maceda’s ideas around drone and melody, as well as the ethnomusicology of Southeast Asia. These discordances are different kinds of gestures and approaches, but also act as a bridge between the melody and rhythmic patterns. It's almost like creating the water breaker where the waves can be redirected back. But it's not a stop, and it's not a pause even. It’s a way to play with time in the composition of sound and music. In Gong 3000’s introduction, a context isn’t given, but as you go along, this context is suggested closer to the end. At the same time, the sound could be a sample of anything, but it's what you project onto it that prescribes its meaning. I also use Kusuma’s sound work as an example because it's so light despite its content — the kind of places he gained experiences from are reflected in his sounds. The work itself is also a nice suggestion to think about the gong’s place within the technosphere. The sound of the gong is created by two materials that are knocked together, but it results in an aura that really hits an internal space. Gong 3000 made me rethink what could be music. You also regularly collaborate with berukera to produce music which similarly draws on a polyphony of sources and references, in a literal re-mixing of contexts. Tell us about how music plays into your practice. I regularly employ berukera as another collaborator, and it was through working with them that I understood this idea of pattern, patterning and re-patterning, and how I can think beyond the visual. Our collaboration started during prep-room: After Ballads at NUS Museum, but it became more serious when I was in residence at NTU CCA Singapore. We started off playing with remixes and thinking about how we could sample from an existing space. One often thinks about sound as contextual, but I started to find that position quite restrictive. At this present moment, one of the most exciting exercises that we're doing is to convert patterns that exist from textiles into sound. These are exercises in maximalism and thinking about how different elements could be heard as one singular harmony or discordance. We also employ several “artificial singers” by using text-to-speech generators to read out poems and play with the keys and rhythms that it reads. For example, we use a lot of auto-tune. In auto-tune, one key is mismatched, which produces the ‘off-tune-ness’ that you hear. At the same time, it makes the voice sound more real. One often thinks about sound as contextual, but I started to find that position quite restrictive. ¹¹ Poietics of Pantun/Pantoum (featuring b*ntangLV786, berukera, jaleejalee, Lee Khee San, ToNewEntities, @sgmuseummemes and moyangz from NUS Museum’s South and Southeast Asia Collections and Autaspace), Fyerool Darma 2022, Installation view at National Gallery Singapore <img width="2000" height="1271" width_o="2000" height_o="1271" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a47691004a3b0d9bab4c57ec2ae690c1daf844c2a16ec7e1091133ff5d20db0d/Poietics-of-Pantun.jpeg" data-mid="182022847" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/a47691004a3b0d9bab4c57ec2ae690c1daf844c2a16ec7e1091133ff5d20db0d/Poietics-of-Pantun.jpeg" /> The conversions from text-to-speech reminds me of the close historical relationship poetry has to music and verbal readings of text. Another recurring interest in your practice is text and language — from lyrical pantuns and rhyming quatrains to hip-hop verses and soulful ballads. Your recent project, Poietics of Pantun/Pantoum/Matuntun/tuntun ..., delves into this. Tell us more about your process making this work. The work Poietics of Pantun/Pantoum/Matuntun/tuntun ... was really an exercise in understanding how one writes about or captures their surroundings. We either describe it in words or draw it, and it moves between the two. Within the spaces and landscapes of our hyperreal present, they merge. The idea that texts are images, or that images are texts, takes form in this instance, to the point where images become flattened or stand in for words. That's where memes emerge. This work was initially titled The Pantoum: Overwrite A Famous Pantun, and it was produced for a digital platform. The work historicised or rewrote the history of pantun as a subversive attempt to obfuscate the real, transforming it into a mode that becomes almost inauthentic. The work also prompted me to ask how we could move beyond the parameters of language itself. Do we now tell the story, or do we still hide the story from those spaces? I like that it doesn’t say that much, it just creates a possibility for pantun mistranslations, and a space where cultural ownership can be explored. There's a question about who gets to own certain parts of that culture, and it goes back to the idea of remixing. Remixing is actually a natural process, and that’s where you see the growth of a certain culture. It also allows us to rethink these global modes of expression. Words are mobile and transmitted easily. They do not require a physical vessel to move from one place to another. In the most updated version of our world, the internet is a space for the sharing and distribution of images. Similarly within several genres of pantuns, there’s no authorship. That's where remixes happen naturally. It gets sampled verbally again and again. Poietics of Pantun/Pantoum/Matuntun/tuntun ... was initially distributed through WhatsApp, along with a pseudo-advertisement. I was playing with the idea of that in-between — between what is real and what is not — and it was an exercise in trying to locate that hyperreal moment in our contemporaneous present. Words are mobile and transmitted easily. They do not require a physical vessel to move from one place to another. In the most updated version of our world, the internet is a space for the sharing and distribution of images. <img width="750" height="895" width_o="750" height_o="895" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/09550d10b805c4c2e133c180e4065ecf66db654804d29eb1e27788fadd84ee9f/IMG_5979.jpeg" data-mid="182022838" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/750/i/09550d10b805c4c2e133c180e4065ecf66db654804d29eb1e27788fadd84ee9f/IMG_5979.jpeg" /> ¹² Photo of a customised Personal Mobility Device captured in NorthPoint City, Yishun, 2022 Credit: Fyerool Darma There’s one more photo you picked out of a customised Personal Mobility Device (PMD) outfitted fully with sunshades, the device almost like an extension of the body to be worn. Tell us more about this image and why it fascinates you. That was an image I took. I think this is an exercise that everyone does, wandering around and taking photos of what they like. I use photography as another way to sketch ideas. It's almost like a timestamp. I’ve always been fascinated by how individuals customise and personalise things, and as an observer, it teaches me a lot about what art is or should be. The PMD is an interesting object, because it provides protection whilst expediting the everyday. It’s this idea of speed where, especially in the context of Singapore, we constantly desire everything to be expedited. For me, the PMD is actually an extension of the body. It's almost like the body becomes dependent on it, and in a world where expediting is the norm and that acceleration becomes the language or philosophy, is there anything left to be expedited? The PMD becomes a good metaphor for that — being reliant on a machine to bring us from point A to point B. I was inspired to create and design my own PMD. We haven't materialised it yet, but I’ve been thinking of the projects we can put it in. I like to allow ideas to simmer and wait for the right time to make the entire thing from scratch. In relation to this, I was curious about your recent works around the Maphilindo Confederation. You reference the notion of ‘Kitsch-men’ in relation to Southeast Asian visual vernacular and political alliances. I’m curious about your interrogations on the question of Southeast Asian regionalism, its political complexities, and how it sits alongside, perhaps, the older shared history of the Malay Archipelago. How do you see these regional histories and the gaps that lie between them? This series of works extend the idea of archipelagic thinking and terrain-forming narratives. It went through several readings. Firstly, it was initiated in 2020, for the exhibition, In Our Best Interests: Afro-Southeast Asia Solidarities during a Cold War at NTU ADM Gallery. We were looking at affinities that disperse but also contain these conversations. For me, it's always been a fascination to find these kinds of thought from a direct vicinity, and how it relates back to the larger archipelago and terrains beyond. In relation to the Kitsch-men, I tend to create certain avenues to confuse the viewer as a way to obfuscate and protect a certain narrative identity. In the translation of Kitsch-men, I thought about how the Kitsch-men is not a real person, but just a persona. The suit becomes a skin that protects and is comfortable at the same time. When the work was presented at ART SG in 2023, it took a different tone. It was almost compressed to the point of flatness because it was contained within a vitrine. The question of what is on display is still left open, because we are still negotiating who that Southeast Asia person is. In certain Western spaces, they assume that a Southeast Asian person is someone who is authentic and grounded in their tradition and roots. You can be grounded in your roots, your narrative and your histories, but still go beyond that, whilst not wearing that garment. For me, it was a work that questioned the positionalities and the disaffinities of what contributes to Southeast Asia as a regional identity. However, it’s not aspiring towards unified regionalism. It questions where Southeast Asia is in the space of many differences and discordances, and how would all of them sit together. It’s an open question. ¹³ KITSCHMENSCH WITH MANY FAILED FLAGS OF 1963 MAPHILINDO CONFEDERATION (REWORKED), Fyerool Darma 2021- 2023 Credit:&nbsp;Jaya Khidir ¹⁴ KITSCHMENSCH WITH MANY FAILED FLAGS OF 1963 MAPHILINDO CONFEDERATION (REWORKED), Fyerool Darma2021- 2023 <img width="1151" height="1600" width_o="1151" height_o="1600" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/89c9dd94557509e9609d1ec99a9e90e75f27c63a3cf108cd0ff9c4f49d2b64d9/kitsch-men.jpg" data-mid="182022840" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/89c9dd94557509e9609d1ec99a9e90e75f27c63a3cf108cd0ff9c4f49d2b64d9/kitsch-men.jpg" /> <img width="1067" height="1600" width_o="1067" height_o="1600" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f7e33b04e75c6d56b350bd074eac3d90f29bb7833f2b4f972c74cb1763fc1ee6/kitsch-men-2.jpg" data-mid="182022839" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/f7e33b04e75c6d56b350bd074eac3d90f29bb7833f2b4f972c74cb1763fc1ee6/kitsch-men-2.jpg" /> What is the role of fact and fiction, and the slippage between them, in your work? The slippage between fact and fiction drives how I create works from various sources. Going back to the idea of remixing, once a material is sampled, the sample is sampled again. Yes, you are giving credit where credit is due, but at the same time, you're bringing it into a new space. That journey is what interests me. It's not about going back to that sample, but exploring how much more I am able to push that sample beyond the parameters of its framing. Going back to the idea of remixing, once a material is sampled, the sample is sampled again. In your work, you often actively credit the variety of collaborators, contributions, and sources. How do you approach this practice of crediting collaborations, in sampling and remixing in the context of the show, but also acknowledging their origins? In academic spaces, there’s an etiquette of having a bibliography and references. For me it's similar to giving respect where it is due, and comes from a need to remember these individuals. When one thinks about the production of work, they always assume that there's just one person that produces it and therefore deserves all the credit. That may be true in some instances. But I'm interested to use that space of making to host other ideas or individuals whose practices I vibe with. It’s also about using that space to start other possible collaborations. This practice started from my time working on prep-room at NUS Museum. I had a conversation with curators Siddhartha Perez and Ahmad Mashadi, and they shared with me the importance of giving credit. Most of the exercises which artists do now have already been done before. It’s another way to honour the past, without trapping them in the time they were in. It's like bringing them out of their cage and taking a walk with them — not on a leash, just walking with them. That’s why, especially for Screenshot, the credits are also necessary to inform future readers that we are not just thinking about one single material and dissecting it into its parts and elements. It highlights a larger pursuit towards thinking about the world as a constant collision of different materials and atoms. For me, the captions and the titles are some ways I reflect this. ¹⁵ SCREENSHOT 01-01-2022 AT 03.03AM, Fyerool Darma 2022, Installation view at Yeo Workshop <img width="1600" height="1067" width_o="1600" height_o="1067" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/336935e925cdc7ca46ce20222b6811b84547d888f457f62c900f8bfbd184b2b3/landscapes-5.jpg" data-mid="182022845" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/336935e925cdc7ca46ce20222b6811b84547d888f457f62c900f8bfbd184b2b3/landscapes-5.jpg" /> ︎ BACK TO MORE SLOW CONVERSATIONS